.....Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand. For the times they are a-changin.
I usually try not to post rants on this blog and instead focus on providing helpful information. However, since this is the one tiny corner of the internet in which I don't have to apologize for my opinion, I figure there's no better place to present my feelings.
I considered quitting the blog, the forums, and all other means of online social interaction today. This is normally my first reaction to these things. I don't have to deal with it, so I won't. My feelings are easily hurt and while I can take criticism, or even blatant disagreement with my views, I can't understand personal attacks, no matter how subtly executed.
I don't like being at odds with anyone. I don't like being responsible for harsh feelings or disagreements in any form. I believe that kindness and understanding are far more effective than disparagement in every instance. That being said, I can only stand idly by without defending myself for so long, and I've got a few things to say.
Writing for content sites is NOT the same thing as freelancing for private clients.
There are so many old-school writers out there who don't seem to differentiate between the two. Gone are the days when it's necessary to send hundreds of query letters en masse every week to secure work. I rarely take on private clients and not because I'm incapable, but because I like to choose my own deadlines and write on the topics of my own choosing.
This doesn't make me any less of a writer. Good writing is good writing whether it's posted on Examiner.com or printed in the New York Times. However, that' s beside the point. What I'm really trying to get at here is the difference between writing for content sites and freelancing for clients.
Here's a prime example. I read a blog post today, which I believe is in direct response to advice I gave to a fellow writer on the WAHM forum regarding Examiner.com. I told this writer that she should try it out and if it doesn't pan out, she could always quit.
I'm sure you, my dear reader, will see the wisdom in this advice if you have any experience with content sites, particularly residual income sites. But the blogger deemed it as "the worst advice ever," and then went on to say that it's irresponsible to quit a writing gig or enter into it knowing that you may quit.
When it comes to content/residual sites, I respectfully disagree.
When a writer stops writing for a residual income site, it doesn't "leave a void to fill." There are hundreds of people creating content for these sites. The site isn't out any money or time because you stopped contributing. In fact, they'll continue to profit from your contributions (as will you) even after you're gone.
Continuing to write for a residual income site when the earnings aren't there simply because you signed up seems a bit silly. In this situation, often quitting and cutting your losses is the best route, and you can never know which sites will perform well for you until you try them. I've tried almost all of them. Some I've kept, and others I've discarded.
I've "quit" writing for several sites (which still pay me monthly for my contributions) because I found others with higher rates. I fail to see what's wrong with this. Would you stay with a client who paid $10 an article if you found another who paid $20? Most of us would not. We'd finish out any obligations and move on to bigger, better things.
Quitting Examiner.com is not the same as abandoning a client who relies on you. I really feel that there has been a blurring of the lines when it comes to content sites and freelancing for private clients. They are two very different things and require two very different approaches.
I would never bail on a client or advise anyone else to do it, either. However, I stand by my advice that quitting a content site if it's not working out is the smart thing to do. This doesn't make you irresponsible or untrustworthy. In fact, it shows that you're smart enough to realize where your time is best spent writing - and where it's not.
This brings me to my next point...
I KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY I MAKE!
I write for upfront pay so that I can keep a weekly paycheck and pay my bills. Doing this work, I make more than enough money to support my family. However, when it comes to residuals I write in my spare time for extra money. To me, it's worth every second I spend doing it for the monthly payments I receive. Someday, I hope to rely on this income solely. Does this make me any less the writer than the person who writes full time for a magazine or website? I think not.
I can decide for myself if a site is lucrative enough to pursue. If it's not, I stop writing there. Where's the problem with this?
I can also share my experiences with others who wish to know them and trust them to use the information to their own benefit. I would never insult my readers, friends and colleagues by assuming that they aren't intelligent enough to find suitable gigs for themselves.
Another thing that irks me (and this is the last one, I promise) is when people shoot down residual income based on the short term returns. While I may have only earned $2 for an article in a month, it will generally continue to earn this amount every month. If I make less than this per article per month for several months, I call it quits and move on.
It takes time to decide if a site is right for you or lucrative enough to continue with. It's a gamble, and some writers aren't willing to take it. I used to be one of them, but no longer. I don't fault others who can't or won't try it. I know what it's like to need money right now and there was once a time when residuals weren't an option for me. Now I have the time to pursue these sites and I'll experiment all over the place and leave anything that doesn't work in the dust.
It's insulting when people insinuate that I don't understand or know how much money I'm making. I keep extremely detailed records for each residual income site I pursue. If the earnings don't live up to my expectations, I continue to collect my monthly payments and move on to something better.
I know that I won't always be paid what I'm worth by doing this. I know that some of my articles will make only a small fraction of what they may generate for the site on which they're published. However, this is a chance I'm willing to take to establish a long-term passive income.
So far, I've found three sites which have met my requirements on article earnings - ehow, Suite 101 and Examiner. The latter two may not work out in the long run, but for now I'm earning at least $24 per year per article. If my earnings drop below this, I won't contribute there anymore, no matter how irresponsible someone else might believe me to be.
When it comes to residual income, you can't just take a very small sample of earnings and use this to make a decision. I have 10 articles on Examiner.com. I've made around $19.00 so far this month. That's $1.90 per article. Well, many people would scoff at that amount and call me an idiot for writing for such low wages. THIS ISN'T HOW IT WORKS!
I've only made $1.90 per article THIS MONTH. That means that if my earnings don't increase at all, I'll make approximately $22.80 per article per year. That's perfectly fine with me, especially when it takes me a total of around 30 minutes to write one article (including keyword research) and about 20 seconds to promote it on Twitter, which is the only promotion I do.
This puts my hourly writing rate at around $45 per hour for Examiner, which is what I average writing for upfront pay. If I begin to make less than this, it's not worth it, but please don't insinuate that I don't understand how to value my own time and work.
I'm not in this for the glamor or the fun. I'm in it to earn a living, and that's what I intend to do, regardless of anyone else's perception. I will retaliate no further, but I did feel that I should say something in my own defense here. I have no hard feelings for anyone, but I am sorry that potentially positive relationships with fellow writers have been made impossible by a difference of opinion.
Sometimes the online world is a little too reminiscent of the real one....
46 comments:
bravo willow, I read both blogs today and new what was going on. I find a lot of gigs off the other site, but I go to your site to find out how to make that gig PROFITABLE for me and if it is WORTH IT to me.
Only I can know what I need to get out of writing, no one else. I applaud you for this. And take heart knowing that you have folks behind you.
Girl, don't let them make you mad. Anyone who doesn't put food in your mouth, money in your pocket, or does not determine the balance of your life or freedom can bite it.
Oh, and also, don't quit because you're motivating people like me who've just started or are trying to start, but we don't know what to do. God has rewards for people like you who share and help others succeed.
Hi Willow,
I'm sorry you've been hurt by someone's thoughtless remarks. Although I rarely comment, I often come to your site and read your posts, which I have found very helpful. Like you I write for sites with upfront pay and do a little writing for residual income, I also have two long term clients that I write for.
Every freelance writer has the right to choose how they want to organize their writing life and earn their money. Don't get too disheartened
suejeff
Great post. I really enjoy your blog. And I appreciate the honesty and hard work you put into sharing your experiences. I know I can trust what you are reporting. As writers, we never know what is going to work or not work. Some people forget that!
@Tina - Thank you. I really appreciate your support and it's good to know that someone believes in what I do here. That's the reason I continue to post here - for those of you that need the information I can provide. I genuinely want to help my fellow writers make the best decisions for themselves.
@Popintervention - Great name, btw. :) I completely agree with you. Thanks so much for supporting me, as well. It means a lot to me!
@suewrite - Thank you, as well. I appreciate your comment and I will continue to move forward with the blog and my writing. And you're absolutely right - we all have to decide what works best for us based on our own personal situations.
Hi Willow,
I know about the situation too. I believe that a person can write both upfront and residual.
Yes, it is trial and error so I always advise get it a chance.
Worst case scenario, it does not work out.
With all due respect...
I still maintain it's bad advice to suggest a writer enter into the job with an "you can always quit" mindset, regardless of the client.
I may be an old school writer, but I'm mostly an old school content writer and I'm not as ignorant to the new ways as your posts here and at WAHM insinuate.
I have been an editor for many content sites, some you may have even worked for. I can assure you that every time a writer leaves, there is indeed a void to be filled.
Every writer who is hired requires paperwork. Every writer who is hired requires training. Every writer who is hired requires some sort of monitoring, so when I say that it's very inconvenient to the client to hire someone only to lose her a week later, I'm being truthful. No one wants to hire someone who will quit two weeks later because it's a waste of time and resources.
Moreover, it gives a writer a bad reputation to continuously leave jobs. Many of the people who hire writers are friendly with each other. We talk. We talk on forums, Twitter and other social networks. We talk at conferences, meetups and Tweetups.And yes, if a writer is irresponsible that person's name may come up in the discussion.
Sure, there are always extenuating circumstances. A blogger might not be paid or there's bad blood between the writer and management. For the most part however, it is very irresponsible to accept a job knowing you probably won't stay there.
No, writing for a content site isn't the same thing as writing for a private client at all, but does that mean we have to be any less professional? I may be old school, but back in the day, we learned a thing or two about good customer service. That included taking a job knowing we'll make good our commitments.
Please note that last comment was written by me, Deborah Ng.
I haven't used blogger in so long I didn't realize a silly name appears. I don't believe in hiding behind anonymity, especially when rebutting comments.
Have a great day!
Deb, I still believe you're missing the point. Do you believe that a person should sign-up to write for a content site and continue to write there when the earnings are not living up to their expectations?
It seems that you're still confusing content sites with private clients. I believe we're talking about two completely different things here.
Are you telling me that ehow.com has a void to be filled if I stop writing there? Of course not! Content sites like this don't work that way.
I don't think its being unprofessional to quit a job that isn't working out for you. I don't understand why you think this is so horrible.
Would you just keep working a dead end job for the rest of your life, even after you realized it wasn't going to be as lucrative as you had hoped? I don't know anyone who would answer yes to that question.
Once again, this is not a freelancer/client situation. Writers hired by Examiner and eHow and similar sites don't require training. There is no training for this.
You have access to the publishing tools once accepted and you're on your own. There may be a few mass emails or documents posted to the site with tips on writing, but they don't spend time and money on hiring an individual to train you specifically. It doesn't work that way.
...continued in next post....
You continue to use the word "client" in your comments. Content sites are NOT clients. They are websites which allow you to publish your content there and benefit from their inherent page rank and search engine strength in exchange for a portion of your revenue. It's similar to starting your own blog or website, but you're using these sites as your platform for publishing instead of starting from scratch.
Of course it would give a writer a bad reputation to continually bail on clients. This is NOT what I'm talking about. There is no "hiring" for many of these sites.
I seriously doubt the channel manager from Examiner.com or the Community Manager from eHow.com is standing around saying, "Man, that Willow. She hasn't written on our site in three months. She's so irresponsible. You definitely don't want to hire her."
I don't know how to explain it any more clearly and it looks as though you're just refusing to see my point.
...continued in next post....
I have acknowledged your point. It's wrong to bail on clients. It's wrong to enter into a contract with a client and then quit a few weeks into it when you know they're counting on you. But once again, these sites are NOT clients.
With a client, you know exactly how much money you'll be making ahead of time. You can decide BEFORE you take the job if it's going to be worth your while. There's no reason to enter into a job like this if you think it won't work out.
I completely AGREE with you here. I even see your point when it comes to content sites that pay upfront. Here, you know what you'll be making before you agree to the job. In this case, taking the job thinking "I can always quit later" is NOT appropriate.
However, with a residual income site, you DON'T KNOW how much money you'll earn and the only way to find out is to try it. In some instances, you won't make the money you hoped for, and there's no other choice but to quit and move on. I don't believe this is irresponsible or unprofessional, but a personal choice that must be made in regard to your own quality of life.
...continued in next post....
I'm so sorry that it has come to this, Deb, as I would have liked for us to become friends. I honestly understand where you're coming from and it hurts me that you continue to discard my point of view.
I stand by my advice that it's okay to "quit" or stop writing for a content site if it isn't making any money for you. I also believe in what you have said - it's not okay to agree to write for a client, take up time and resources, and then quit out of nowhere. However, not many people would ever enter into an agreement that wasn't beneficial for them in the first place.
I think what hurts me the most about this argument is that you think I am some sort of irresponsible, unprofessional moron who's only care is for myself. It's just not so, and I really hope you can see where I'm coming from, as well.
I don't want to get into some huge on-going rivalry with you. I think that we live in very different freelancing worlds and we both have much (albeit different) information to offer our readers.
I respect you as a fellow writer and human being. I don't wish to put you down or dismiss your way of doing things. We have had a difference of opinion and I'd like to leave it at that. Thanks for stopping by, and I hope that our future correspondences will be more pleasant.
...continued in next post....
@Michael - Thanks, I appreciate your comment and I'm glad that you find the blog useful. :)
@CherrineB - That's my point exactly. It doesn't always work out, and there's nothing at all wrong with this. We can't know about these sites until we try them. Thanks for your comment. :)
Don't let people bring you down! Many people find your blog and advice wonderful(including me).
If they don't like what you say, then they can go and flip burgers at a fast food joint.
By the way, I know how you feel about getting your feelings hurt-I do to. But in the end, if you feel that what you are doing is right-then go for it.
Willow - I don't understand. Because I don't disagree we can't be friends or blog buddies or colleagues? We share a different point of view. I don't take opposing points of view personally because life would be incredibly boring if it's so one-sided. I harbor no ill-will and I have no hard feelings.
Also, my point is not that you shouldn't bail on a client. It's that you shouldn't take a job with the mindset that you can always quit if it doesn't work out. It's a waste of your time and your client's (and yes, you work for them, they pay you, they're clients.) time. If you're not sure if the job is a good one, pass it by. Otherwise a good, responsible writer should be prepared to honor her commitments.
In fact, web site writers are more hard pressed to honor commitments as they're not working on a per project basis. Your client (or website if you'd rather) is hiring what he expects will be long term writers. If you are trying his site out on a trial basis, you should be responsible and let him know, so he can decide whether or not he wants someone who may or may not stay as opposed to someone who is in it for the long haul.
A content site is a client. A client doesn't have to be a person. If you are working for someone on freelance or contractual basis, and that person or company is paying you it's a client regardless of whether it's a real live person or content submitted via a form.
Darn it! I left a well thought out comment, but somehow it didn't go through. Willow, if two similar comments show up from me, feel free to delete one.
Now, what did I say before LOL? OK, first, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, Willow. I know what it's like to take things personally, even in the cyber world. I usually stay out of heated arguments, but I felt I had to say something here.
I agree with you that content sites are not clients. We are not obligated to any residual sites. In fact, many of us actually belong to quite a few of these content sites. We join, see how the residuals add up, and then decide if they are worth our time to continue or not.
We are contributors - we never go through a hiring process with these sites and we owe them nothing, other than producing quality content if/when we decide to write for them.
If someone wants to quit writing for a site like eHow, the company will never miss them. It's not unprofessional and it's certainly NOT the same thing as bailing on a deadline with an actual client who is depending on us.
I truly believe that those who are arguing with you are really missing the point with what we all face with residual content sites. We cannot continue to contribute to a site, even in our spare time, if it's not financially worth it. We're not hurting anyone when we decide to take our writing skills elsewhere. I can only assume that these individuals have not experimented with these kinds of sites yet.
Willow, my best advice to you is to step away from the computer and take the day off with your family. You are such a wealth of information and go above and beyond to help other writers. It would be a shame for the online writing world to lose your insights on all things freelance writing.
Willow, I learned so much by reading the posts that are at the top of the writing folder and then finding your blog.
I am not sure who thinks we need protecting or that we are unaware of the alternatives. There is a great deal of infomation at WAHM, here, and with plenty of other blogs about alternate options other than the sites many of us choose to start at.
I am choosing to start slow and grow. Others may be ready to jump in and grab the clients and that is the right choice for them. Nobody should tell them differently. However, I already can see the difference between my articles at the start of the month and those as we approach the end. It comes from reading, learning, and trying to apply what I have discovered. It is easier to do that on some sites than others.
As for eHow and other sites missing me when I'm ready to move on, I doubt that. There are tons of new writers slapping up their content daily. All looking for the same chance to earn income. When I am ready to move forward, I doubt I will be as much as a blip on the radar for any content site that does not have assignments that they are prepared to give me.
I think that is one of the big differences as well. Since I have been working at eHOw the assignments have dropped to virtually nothing. AC is not lacking print writers for the assignments they post either. There is a huge difference between not performing tasks you agreed to complete and just deciding you are not going to add to a group of articles any longer. I would not leave an assignment undone, but I would consider looking for new assignment when I have the chance.
Most employers who pay on a per job basis in the "real world" realize they are at risk of losing employees if they can not provide enough work. Contract workers will have to find other options if the work is not there. Why would content sites expect anything different?
Keep up the good work, you really do provide solid information and education.
@LizD - Thank you so much for your comment. You said exactly what I was trying to express but failed to do so because I was so upset.
We DON'T owe these sites anything and I think you did a brilliant job explaining this. I also agree that it really seems some of these people have not experimented with residual sites and so they are truly missing the point of my message.
I appreciate your support and I'm taking your advice. Good bye internet for the rest of the week! :)
Willow,
Just came over here from AW (which is, at times, Snark Central). I am the same way you are in terms of being sensitive to others' negative comments.
As everyone else (nearly) has said, don't let it get to ya. There will always be people like that. Try and just let it go. Tune it out. Revel in the fact that you're a good writer and that your blog has helped people.
In regard to the "try it out and see how it works" advice, I have done the exact same thing with Examiner. So far I really like it, but I'm not going to commit to them forever. Examiner and these other sites don't give a sh*t about you, and like you said, there's a million other people waiting to take your place. So..."try it and see" sounds like great advice to me!!
Let's for a moment examine one of Demand Studios' claim to fame: (taken directly from their website) "Work on your own terms: Some earn their living on Demand Studios, and some earn extra cash in their spare time."
What does that say to you?
A.) You're considered a client. Don't sign up here if you decide that you no longer want to work for us if you find bigger, and better things to do with your time and writing ability.
Or...
B.) You're considered a "indepent contractor" (hence the 1099 form you receive for earnings over $600). You can at anytime write when you feel like it.
I'm going to use my spidey senses and say that it's telling us choice "B," that we can write when we want, anytime we want, for how ever long we want.
If at anytime you feel like the opportunity is not for you. It's OKAY to leave. You're not contractually obligated to stay or produce any said amount of content within a specified time period.
Content sites and clients are not the same. Unless the fine print says differently...
Point. Blank. Period.
Keep your head up willow!
"If at anytime you feel like the opportunity is not for you. It's OKAY to leave. You're not contractually obligated to stay or produce any said amount of content within a specified time period."
Again, my point isn't whether or not we should leave a bad opportunity. It's entering into a gig with the "Oh well, I can always quit" mindset. I understand quitting a bad job, I feel it's very responsible to take a job on a trial basis and not inform the client - or if you'd rather - whoever is paying you.
Let me try that again, I feel it's very IRresonsible to take a gig on a trial basis without informing the person who is paying you.
Hi Willow,
I have been following your blog for sometime now. Honestly, I appreciate your effort for sharing such detailed information. It is indeed very informative especially for newbies.
Like you, I opted to write in residuals sites for one reason. I have a fulltime job and working with clients is quite a demanding task for me.
Anyway, I just want to say that you are doing a very great job and your posts have been very helpful.
Just ignore those who hurt you as they are not worth of your time and emotion.
Always remember taht you are doing a fantastic job.
Do you truly believe eHow and the rest are not set up with the understanding that people will come write when they can and leave when the opportunity is no longer viable? There is nothing on the site that asks you to update availability, requests a certain number of articles be posted per week, per month, etc.
However, they have not promised me much either except a chance to post my articles with the anticipation that I can earn long term residuals. I do not believe either of us are kidding each other about the opportunity.
If I have missed something in the forms I filled out by all means inform me. By the number of articles being posted daily, and the complaints about many sites that competition is driving down up front offers I doubt that any of these sites are missing someone when they find more lucrative offers and move off. It merely makes room for those join and more opportunities for recognition for those who remain. There does not seem to be a shortage.
I have never had the mentality that it is a great idea to treat an employer badly. Respect in a working relationship leads to better future working relationships. There does seem to be an open ended commitment on a number of these sites that has a clear understanding that some people will come and stay, while others will explore and leave. They are ultimately designed that way.
There are other companies who do have an application process, screen articles, provide specific assignments who do seem to want more by giving more to the applicant. A respectful trial period on both sides is expected, as occurs in most jobs. People have been dropped who do not meet expectations after screening and people quit if the job does not suit them. This happens in the real world with trial periods. The advantage for on-line employers is the line is going around the corner for people who want to work. Filling the slot is not as challenging as it can be when someone quits a tough to fill slot in the real world.
This even happens for long term employees who are handed a better opportunity to feed, clothe, and shelter their families. Loyalty from employers is not common today. Employees are looking out for themselves and their loved ones. One should not be suprised, many have learned the hard way.
@Lisa - Thanks for your comment. I am doing just that. Everyone can have their own opinion and I'm not going to let it worry me any further. After all, it doesn't impact my income one bit. Thanks again!
@Yolanda - Thanks for commenting. I completely agree with you. I think these "old-school" writers still think that these content sites are clients, when in fact, they don't even view themselves as such. It's just not the way things work anymore, and I'll never believe there's anything wrong with trying out a site and leaving if it doesn't work out for you.
@Double Vodka Coke - Thank you for your support, and I'm glad the blog has been helpful to you. I have definitely gone into "ignore" mode now. Lol. You're absolutely right. It's not worth my time or emotion to pursue this any further. :)
@Bailey - Again, wonderful job explaining this situation. I, too, don't think it's okay to be disrespectful or treat your employer (or client) unprofessionally. I don't think the opposing side understands that we are NOT under any obligation to these content sites. Even the companies themselves make it clear that we're under no obligation. Thanks again for your comments. I think you've shed some light on the situation for many people who may not be familiar with residual/content sites and the way they operate. :)
I know this is repetition but I thought I'd chime in to support your view, Willow. Every content site I write for can drop me in a second if they wanted to, and my contract says I can walk away with the same ease. Surely they'd make it more difficult for me if it was so troublesome? I genuinely think it's understood that writers come and go in the content site game.
I am not a typical blog reader and am even less a blog commenter (and to that end, I haven't even taken the time to read the comments here today) but I had to say something really quick.
This is the one blog that I have bookmarked and go back to each time there is a new post, because the information is excellent. I don't always agree with the info (for example, I found textbroker a waste of my time and energy) but to have found someone who put the time and energy into giving us such great open info about various freelance writing sites is great!
I wanted to say thanks for the hard work you've put into this site, and let you know that regardless of the back and forth that inevitably gets started about residual incomes, I will be a dedicated follower of your blog for as long as I am a freelance writer myself!
Jennifer
www.321learn.net
Willow, I just found your blog today and it's AWESOME! I write fiction (novels) and I'm a professional graphic designer, but jobs in that area have been on the lean side so I'm filling my queue with freelance writing to cover a fraction of my losses. Therefore, the information you provide is saving my sanity and possibly my bank account.
In regard to it being "very IRresonsible to take a gig on a trial basis without informing the person who is paying you," I have to say I've never agreed to stay at any job over the 30 + years I've worked for others if it didn't work out. ALL jobs are a trial basis, period. No employer, contractor, whatever, owns your soul, and I don't believe you have to remind them of that fact when you agree to work for them. They also know that if things don't work out, you'll get the sack, and they don't inform you of that beforehand either. I'd never expect a client to take me on and expect that client to keep me, no matter what. That's ludicrous. It works both ways. IMO.
Willow,
Please don't let others make you feel unhappy enough to quit what you are doing. Your blog is extremely helpful - I even highlighted it on my blog a couple of weeks ago so others would find you. Because of you I am now writing for eHow and am enjoying the benefits of it. You are helping a great many people to see the value of earning residual income, so don't ever give up. I do both client writing and Internet writing, and I'm with you - I enjoy making my own deadlines and choosing my own subjects. We make money either way! Keep up the great writing and the wonderful blog.
DeAnna
Write Moms
I agree wholeheartedly. Here's why:
1. We're in the same boat. I also prefer not to write for individual clients because I like flexible deadlines, formats and topics.
2. I also find that people just DO NOT get the whole concept of writing for residuals. They don't understand that working for upfront pay is working for pennies, not the other way around.
Several of my residual articles will earn me over $100 each year. That's about $200 per hour of work in the first year alone. Hello? Why don't people get how good that is?
3. You're right about the differences in the real and online worlds. Most people don't get that. Also, too many people are old school thinkers and they are finding out just how dangerous that is. With this economy in the tank, the whole concept of working a job for upfront pay is becoming less and less of a stable gig. Putting all your eggs in one basket and only making money while you're actively working is very unsafe and won't much for you in the long run. Just ask the folks who have to go back to work now after a lifetime of working for upfront pay because their retirement accounts are empty.
Willow, you and every other writer that works for residuals is doing the right thing. The right thing usually IS misunderstood and unpopular.
To have what most people don't have, you must do what most people won't do.
Keep up the good work. :-)
@keyeri - Thanks for the support. I agree that it IS something that's understood in this field. Writers will always come and go from content sites, and the sites know this and are prepared for it.
@Jennifer - Thank you! I appreciate your support as well, and I'm glad you've found the information here helpful. It's you and all my other readers that push me to continue, even when others don't agree. :)
@Karen - Thanks! I also agree with you here. I don't think we have to remind anyone that we might leave if the job doesn't work out. That's just the way things are in this line of work, or as you've said, any other line of work.
@Fit Brown Mama - You are absolutely right and I love the way you've explained it. Working for upfront IS working for pennies in the long run! I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. Thank you very much for your support! :)
@Writemoms - Oops! I didn't overlook you! Thanks for your comment, and I'm glad I've inspired you to write for eHow. There will always be those people who don't understand residuals, but I'm starting to be glad of that. That leaves more room for those of us who DO understand the power of the income it can generate. Thanks again!
Could you imagine what the DS editorial team would do if they got 1,000 emails per day from new writers that said "I was just letting you know that I'll be trying your site for a trial period and potentially leaving it if I don't find the revenue suitable to my personal needs."
That'd be kind of funny! Actually, it's an incredible waste of time and resources. Everyone knows you either write or you don't. DS doesn't know (or care) if I decide not to produce content. It's part of the appeal for me. I do what I want, when I want and that's all she wrote.
The "I can quit if I don't like it" attitude isn't irresponsible, it's self preservation. I have entered every job I have ever had, online or not, with that thinking because I value my happiness and life's too short.
Writing samples portfolio? That was a long failed experiment from a long time ago...this is teresa, from DS. lol
You do not have to inform a content website that you no longer wish to write for them. As long as you don't publish plagiarized material and do other things that are against the rules, you don't have to even login for a year or two, if you do not want to.
Content websites have hundreds if not thousands of writers, and they are not going to have a fit because you choose not to write for a while or ever.
Your account is still there, if you change your mind or if you recieve rev share.
@Theresa - I completely agree! It is a ridiculous notion. I'm sure they're more than aware that people can leave whenever they want. :)
@N.H. - I agree with you, also. As long as you play by the rules, that's all that you need to do. If the sites wanted more, they would have minimum articles due, etc. Thanks for your comment!
Hi Willow,
I don't know if you're interested in automating your Examiner Tweets, but I use http://twitterfeed.com/ to automatically post mine when each article is published. That'll save you those extra 30 seconds a post!
I agree with most of what you said, and I really hate those WAHM arguments, too. That one made my stomach hurt from all of the nastiness. The thing to remember there are WAHM posts that give "advice" that is just promotion for a website. I find it unethical and immoral, especially when you are giving other people financial and earning advice, but there are those who see no problem with it.
Anyway, I did want to say that I have had to drop clients before. Just like a content site, a private client may end up being more trouble that it's worth. I've had to drop two clients, one from being cantankerous and obnoxious and one because the pay just didn't end up being enough for me to continue. The key is really to let them know in advance so that they have time to find someone else. No one should have to write for a client indefinitely just because they once agreed to write for them.
@L - I wasn't promoting any more than anyone else. I wasn't even being nasty. I didn't type in a nasty tone and I didn't say nasty words. I think sometimes tones are very hard to read and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
To say I only post at the WAHM forum to promote is wrong, especially if you don't know me. I rarely ever say "come to my blog", though I might post a link now and then if it's relevant to a discussion. We all have links in our signature - why am I the only one who is promoting? My link has stayed the same for five years. I don't change it with every affiliate or every program I join and I'm not blatant about what I do. I'm sincere when I want to show the other side of the coin.
Also, again, my point wasn't whether or not we should leave clients when they're not working out. My whole post was whether or not one should take a job with a positive outlook or a negative outlook. Whether one should enter a gig saying "oh well I can always quit" or if they should enter it saying "I'm going to do my best." I never recommend anyone stay with a crappy client. I do recommend we all enter a gig with a positive frame of mind. However, I also know some people have their minds made up about me and will twist my meanings to convey a particular tone or meaning when that's not the case.
Self promoting to want others to get what they deserve? If you want to see it that way, fine. But if that's the case we should all remove the signatures from under our names, right? I just participated in a discussion. I didn't tell anyone at all to come to my blog.
Much good luck to you for a long and prosperous career.
Your tone was very, very harsh. I'm sorry that you could not see that, but you seem to have some problem with me that I don't really understand. I consider myself a responsible writer, and I try to give back to the writing community. Sometimes I ask questions of people there. That's it. That's what I did wrong. I don't really see why the snarking has to continue.
I write for a number of residual sites. That doesn't make me stupid, and it isn't the largest part of my income by far. But, you insinuated on not one but two threads in the same week that anyone who does is stupid for doing so. You then did so on your blog.
I don't think that anyone, much less a writer, would believe that just because you didn't use that precise word that it wasn't expressed clearly. Your blog post about how we couldn't figure out how to calculate the time we spend on writing and promotion was just kind of sad. I'm sorry that you feel that way about other writers. I assure you that I can add and keep track of the amounts per article. I really can. I'm betting that other writers can as well. We're adults.
Continued...
I'm not sure how keeping your signature link the same has anything to do with anything. I think this is the third or fourth time you've mentioned it.
The only affiliate program I belong to is Amazon, and I've never put an Amazon link in a forum. Sorry. Yes, I have links in my signature, but they're just referral links for sites that I use, and I don't think I've ever mentioned them in the forums. I would never steer anyone away from anything else in order to go to them. That's my opinion. Apparently I'm not supposed to have one, but I do.
I think that simply reaching out to the writers who felt insulted would have been a nice gesture. I think it still would be. If I had insulted so many people, even without meaning to, I would have made an effort to apologize in order to make those people feel a little better. I don't know if you realize how harsh and patronizing your tone really was, not just once but over and over again, but perhaps this is a good time to look at that tone and think about why everyone felt insulted. Every experience is a learning experience.
@L - I have nothing against you, think nothing ill of you and do not think you're stupid at all. I don't even know you, so who am I to judge?
My posts at WAHM was just to consider other options. There were no underlying meanings.
I apologize if you read anything i wrote that way and want you to know I didn't have a harsh tone at all. You asked a question and as the only one to present an opposing point of view I was considered harsh. Other people on the same forum even said I wasn't rude and didn't have a rude tone.
My blog post said to make sure the ends justify the means - it never said you didn't know how. I do believe you see me a certain way and want to project me as being less than honorable. That's certainly your prerogative and I won't try to change your mind. For the record, I don't know you, have nothing against you, and really don't care how much money you make. You asked a question, I responded, and because I didn't agree it was insinuated I'm a self promoting blogger who thinks WAHMs can't think for themselves. Not so at all.
I sincerly hope you have a wonderful Sunday, a terrific summer and a long, prosperous writing career.
I don't agree with any of this, but I can see that we won't be seeing eye to eye. The tone was patronizing. The question was asked of people with experience writing for the site. You came on claiming to have all the answers and didn't. I don't think that's fair to anyone because the advice was not from experience. You tell people not to go to bidding sites, to residual sites, to anywhere that they don't find through your site.
You as a person might be nice, lovely and polite. But as a business practice, I can't agree with that. Especially when working mothers with kids to support are involved. It wasn't because I "see you a a certain way," and I'm not projecting anything on you. I simply mentioned the behavior, without mentioning your name. I gave general advice about keeping in mind that some marketers give advice based on their promotions. I'm surprised that you thought that was so revolutionary. Thanks for the well wishes. I hope you have a good summer as well.
L - Just to clarify - I don't like residual, bidding or any type of site that pays a blogger or writer very little money. It has nothing to do with my blog. It has to do with earning a livable wage.
Also, I did know about Examiner. As I mentioned at WAHM, I had a very long telephone conversation with one of the executives behind Examiner because they wanted to advertise at FWJ. I learned all the details, including median income because I didn't feel right taking money for their ad when they fall below the minimum wage for jobs I'll post.
I knew exactly how they worked - and also - your initial post didn't ask for folks who were experienced at Examiner, you just wanted to know information about them. Here's your quote:
"I just got back from two weeks on the beach, and boy do I hate seeing my own chores stacked up to do. Glad to be back, though! Anyway, I have a question about Examiner. Several months back, maybe a year ago, I was accepted for a national Examiner position and I turned it down because I didn't have any faith that there was any money in it. I already write for enough rev share sites, so I was very unsure.
"SInce that time, a number of threads here have said that the pay is good and that it is worthwhile, so I applied again a few weeks ago. While I was gone I was accepted for another national position and I ust received a second notice asking me whether I want it. So, my question is really whether it is really worth the time. My husband was laid off months ago and we are dependent on my income, so I can't take any more free or low-paying work. I want to know if the money is actually worth it.
"I work for sites that take a lot of time to build up an income, but they only require one article a week. If I'm going to post four times a week, I have to know going in that I am not damaging our income by doing so. I know that it is $10 per 1,000 views, but that means nothing if there is no traffic. I am very torn about this right now and would love to have any guidance that anyone could give me. The Angela Hoy article seemed to indicate that it was just pennies per article, and I just can't do that kind of thing anymore. I may have to give up my Bella position in favor of paying work as it is. I'd hate to throw away an opportunity if there is a lot of potential in being an Examiner, though."
I apologize for responding to a thread where you didn't want me. Now that I know you don't want me, in particular, to respond to your questions I'll respect your wishes. If anyone else would prefer I don't respond to their questions as well, feel free to put that underneath the subject line so I'm not accused of butting in where I don't belong or having an agenda.
You both bring up very valid points. I'm considering doing some freelance writing myself, and since the internet is a wide open market of opportunities, there are pluses and minuses to this.
Debra - I agree that a writer should maintain diligence and discipline. In order to be effective, you must keep practicing. Because the internet is so wide with opportunities, there is a tendency to get distracted.
Willow - I also believe your comment is valid about having the choice to find other programs that are more lucrative and suit your personal needs. People do this in the real world as they do online. I quit my job two years ago because despite the constant, steady government pay, it sapped my creativity. I just had to quit.
If writing begins to feel like a chore than a love, then I'd be inclined to quit that, too. If I'm not in the mood or lost the flavor, the quality of my writing would go down anyway. So, with the internet growing like crazy and constant opportunities coming on board, I don't see the problem in taking interest in something else.
If there were just only two freelance opportunities on the internet, then okay, I'd suck it up a little longer. But why not find a site that suits you? It's like a favorite pair of jeans. After many tries, you find the one with the
right cut - not too snug, not too loose.
I plan on applying advice from both of you because if you two can do it, then so can I.
Neither of you said anything irresponsible.
So, I'm sorry the two of you aren't getting along. You both offer great tips that can help budding freelance writers.
I hope you'll be able to mend this relationship down the road.
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